Curriculum: Interview

An Interview with Suzy Barile, Judge for the Literary Magazine Contest 2009-2010 (part two)

Interviewed by Katrina Williams, Editor of the Wilson Literary Review.
(Read part one.)

Brief Introduction to the Book:

Suzy Barile, the great great granddaughter of Union General Smith Dykins Atkins and Ella Swain, daughter of David Lowry Swain, state governor and University of North Carolina President, separates fact from fiction in her nonfiction book Undaunted Heart: The True Story of a Southern Belle and a Yankee General.

In 1865, following the South’s defeat, the citizens of Chapel Hill were awaiting the arrival of Union troops ordered to capture the city. Even after a bitter surrender, however, love transcended all political differences and personal ideologies as Ella and Smith managed to forge a relationship amid the aftermath of a war that divided a nation.

The “Southern Belle” and the “Yankee General” were the subjects of much speculation, mistrust, and scandal during the critical period when the North and the South were trying to reconcile the great divide that had pitted brothers against brothers, sons against fathers, man against man. Ella and Smith were put in the difficult position of having to choose between loving freely or yielding to public demands.

Through all of the controversy and personal tragedies, Ella and Smith remained “undaunted” in their commitment to each other. Suzy Barile’s book Undaunted Heart is a testimony to a true love story.

In my communication with your publicist, Gita Schonfeld, she indicated that my reference to your work as a novel was not an accurate representation. She says that you refer to it as a nonfiction book, an historic book. Could you elaborate on why you make this distinction between a novel and an historic book?
- A novel is fiction, with characters who, though perhaps based on real people, are created by the writer. The story, while perhaps based on true events, is woven into a narrative created by the writer. In the case of Undaunted Heart, the characters are real and the story is real, and all has been meticulously researched. The books is based entirely on historical events, and thus it is non-fiction, but it reads – intentionally – like a novel.
Briefly describe the setting for your book.
- The first 5 chapters take place in Chapel Hill, where Ella grew up and where she meets her future husband. From that point on, most of the setting is Freeport, Ill., where the couple lived after they wed. That is where Smith was from, and as was customary in those days, Ella moved to her husband’s home. Occasionally in the second half of the book, the setting is Chapel Hill – when the couple would visit – or Raleigh, where Ella’s mother lived following her husband, David Swain’s, death.
Briefly outline the layout of your book and why you chose this format.
- The book is chronological with a thematic bent – that is to say, it begins with Ella and her future husband meeting and ends with their deaths. But in between, the reader learns about life in Chapel Hill during the war, the lives, courtship and early marriage of Ella’s parents, Smith’s early life, some about the lives of Ella’s sister Anne and her brother Richard (called Bunkey), and about her mother’s life following David Swain’s death and Ella’s death.
Who are Ella Swain and Smith Atkins in relation to you?
- They are my great-great grandparents on my mother’s mother’s side of the family.
How did Ella meet her future husband, Smith Atkins?
- Smith was the general in charge of the Union troops who occupied Chapel Hill at the end of the Civil War. When Atkins called on her father, the town’s leading citizen by virtue of him being the president of the University, the two met by chance. Though there’s never been a need to wonder “What if?” I suppose if they had not had the chance meeting in Ella’s home, then she would have met him during the course of the Union soldiers’ occupation of the town. Many of the girls became “friendly” with the soldiers, just as the residents appear to have become “friendly” with the soldiers quartered in their homes.
Why does she call him Genl in her letters?
- Ella’s father, David Swain, had served three terms as governor prior to being named President of the University. Just as today we tend to call former U.S. presidents “President,” but abbreviate the title when written, so Swain was referred to as “Governor,” and the title abbreviated. Ella was formally introduced to Atkins as “General Atkins,” and having heard her father referred by his friends as “Governor,” she referred to her husband that way, and abbreviated it in her letters, thus the name “Genl.”
  I presume at some point she called him by his given name of Smith, as the engraving in her jewelry and the dedication in their Bible is from Smith to Ella. But never did she refer to him by Smith in any of the 15 letters I have from her to her parents.
What were some of the tragedies Ella experienced during her marriage?
- There were so many sadnesses she lived through, from the death of her first child after a day of life, to the deaths of her sister, father, and brother, her 14-month-old boy, and a 1-year-old boy. Though we don’t get a sense of the sadness that the reaction of friends and neighbors to her marriage, she must have felt some chagrin, even in her determination to go through with the marriage.
Much of their marriage was spent apart. What contributed to this fact?
- Ella was born and raised in Chapel Hill. She had some experience with snow, as Chapel Hill records show snowfall – and significant accumulation – during every decade as far back as the 1800s. But Freeport, Ill., which is just 15 miles from the Wisconsin state line, often gets snow as early as September and as late as mid-to-late March, and I believe this was more than she was accustomed to – and comfortable with. Because of that, her husband brought her and their children to North Carolina in early fall (he had to get back before the snowfall!), and took them home for the summers.
Why was the relationship between Ella and Genl so shocking and scandalous?
- At the end of the Civil War, everyone’s emotions were raw. Even though Chapel Hill never experienced fighting, they suffered shortages of food, household necessities, money, etc. The reason was the war and the war was being fought, they believed, because the Union, the Yankees, were trying to change their way of life. Though most were relieved when the war and its fighting ended, they were not pleased to learn one of their own was going to marry the enemy!
Why was General Atkins so despised by the locals in North Carolina?
- Again, I believe it all goes back to the rawness of emotions at the end of the war. Many believed once war ended, it was time to move on, and those people were accepting of the marriage. Even Mrs. Spencer admitted it was a marriage of love. Atkins corresponded for many years with former N.C. Gov. William Graham, who also was a friend of Gov. Swain.
Why were Ella and her father referred to as turncoats?
- A turncoat is someone who turns away from the cause at hand, and because Swain allowed his daughter to wed a Yankee, and she did so, those who were unhappy with the marriage deemed the two “turncoats.”
What were the myths surrounding their relationship that you bring out in your book?
- Many have said Ella and her new husband “fled” Chapel Hill with jewels and silver belonging to Southerners, but I believe the evidence shows they were not well-off like other young married couples. There was a story that Atkins had stolen silver from a Durham woman, but that also was proven untrue. There also is the problem of David Swain’s papers following his death and Mrs. Swain refusing to turn over ones that belonged to the university. It was later discovered that she did return papers that were not her husband’s “personal” papers, though because he had long been collecting N.C. artifacts before the N.C. Historical Society was founded, she wanted many of those items found in his library after he died to belong to him and not the state. Remember that in those days, women did not usually work, and when he died, she was left without a livelihood. She moved in with her two maiden and one widowed sister in the Raleigh home she grew up in, and records show that from time-to-time until her death, she sold land she had inherited from her husband. My supposition is that she sold land when the sisters needed money.
How did you come by the letters used in Undaunted Heart? Whose letters were they?
- My great-Uncle Tyn Cobb, who attended UNC for a few short months before he was discovered to have treatable TB and had to leave for treatment, never to return as a student, LOVED Carolina. He was a lifelong member of the Alumni Association and had nearly every book that mentioned David Swain in his personal collection. When Atkins died, his eldest daughter, Dot, who was my Uncle Tyn’s mother, sold the family home and the newspaper in Freeport. I presume she took papers, photographs, and books with her. She and her husband lived with their son, Tyn, for some time prior to their deaths, and he then “inherited” their papers, etc. When he died, he left everything related to UNC first to my mother, a UNC grad, and after her death, to me, as I was the only one of my siblings to attend and graduate from UNC. Among those papers were the letters.
When you first read the letters, what went through your mind about your great-great grandparents?
- I immediately realized what they were and started transcribing them. I couldn’t believe that we had an actual window into their life together after all the years of knowing only a few of the stories. Sometimes I felt a bit of a voyeur, as much of my research was into intimate details.
What prompted you to write this book?
- I began lecturing on the topic in 2000, and several friends told me I should write a book. One day I announced I was writing a book, and somehow saying it aloud made it so.
How long did it take to research and compile all the factual information used in this book?
- It took 8 additional years of research and writing, and another 10 months of working daily with the publisher, before the book became a reality.
Other than the letters, what other sources did you use when writing this book?
- I was lucky to have at my disposal family photographs, Bibles, Atkins’ journal from when he was 19, books belonging to him and Swain, other family letters, and the N.C. books my Uncle Tyn had in his personal collection. To that, I added a trip to Freeport in 1996 to see what I could find (my cousins opened their collections to me!), and to Chapel Hill and its special collections, and to the library at St. Mary’s school, as well as the History Museum and the State Archives in Raleigh. I traveled to Asheville to do research about the Swain family, and wrote to many different places, ranging from the colleges Ella’s brother attended in Charlestown, S.C., and Philadelphia, Pa., to UNC-Greensboro, as I tried to find out about Edgeworth Female Academy in Greensboro, which Ella attended. I also relied a great deal on the Internet to access newspapers and journals and books online, as well as a variety of databases and genealogical services.
  The luckiest piece of information I gleaned, however, was meeting new cousins who were so helpful to my research. From Ella’s brother, I met Eleanor in California, Rod in Virginia, and Erik in Georgia, and from my work on Mrs. Swains’ connection to Gov. Richard Caswell, I met Claire, who now lives in North Carolina.
Are there items or facts or information that you did not include in Undaunted Heart? If so, what are they?
- Well, the letters were not included in total, nor were all the old photographs and photos of family heirlooms, such as Ella’s wedding ring, some of her jewelry, the family Bibles, and Atkins’ sword and U.S. Army commission, signed by Abraham Lincoln.
Why is it important that your readers know the “true story” of your great-great grandparents?
- For so many years, the marriage was blamed for the downfall and eventual closing of the University in 1870, and there were always such bitter feelings towards the couple. I hope by putting the true story out there that they can be seen as the two people in love that they were.
What implications do you think your book will have on North Carolina’s local history or even national history?
- I hope it will shed light on what the true story behind their marriage was, and perhaps redeem Ella somewhat.
As an English instructor, I can see your book being used as a wonderful supplement to English composition and literature courses. Have you considered how your book could be used in history classes, particularly North Carolina history classes?
- As word gets out that it is available, perhaps it will be used as such. I am using it as a supplement in my Early American Lit class and we’ll look to it when we study the slave writers, women writers, and Civil War writers.
How would you like to see it used in both English and history classes? Or other classes not mentioned here?
- I think Undaunted Heart has many other uses as a supplement, whether in a Women’s Studies course or a course on relationships – for it certainly gives an interesting and honest view of a variety of relationships that all were affected by one particular event – the book touches many areas of interest, with so many different ways to look at the story, so I think it could be adapted for a variety of purposes. Because the 140th anniversary of the start of the Civil War is in 2011, with four years of activities planned around the country, especially in states where battles took place, there should be a great deal of interest generated in all areas of the war and its outcome. With all that in mind, I travel to Bentonville Battlefield in March, and to Freeport, Ill., in June, as well as places in between. I even spoke to a group of first grade Cub Scouts!